byUsers Forums

BT hinted about the possibility of donation to party funds?

=

Every copper I ever knew was most notable for being too lazy to actually become a criminal despite all the tendencies being in place.

Compare this with the American FCC's actions regarding ISP's using traffic management even though Comcast are wriggling at least they are trying to defend the customers rights.

Silkie

Bengie wrote:

"It is also believed that there would have been a level of implied consent from BT's customers in relation to the tests, as the aim was to enhance their products."

How could there have been 'any' implied consent, you would have to have been aware of it first.  You can't consent in any form about something you know nothing about.

Logically, I would have to agree to you.

I think what they meant was 'presumed consent', given their justification is that 'spying on people' is equivalent to 'enhancement of their service'.

Of course, none of this is relevant, since (a) it's not only the data of the BT users who got spied on, but also emails sent to them, forum posts they viewed etc, the majority of which was not written by those BT users profiled, or in fact BT users at all, and (b) the law requires explicit consent between all parties, including the user being profiled, the owners of the data being profiled, the owners of the website/service hosting the data etc.


Presumably it's okay to break the law now, because (a) all you have to do is presume that the victim would allow it, and (b) it's okay to presume that the law allows you to presume that it's okay.

Last edited by alphatwin (25-09-2008 16:41:55)

Silkie341 wrote:

Well any office of this current government could hardly be too harsh on spying on people without listeners breaking down into fits of derisive laughter.

I note the proposed takeover of our nuclear power industry by the French (who stole it from us originally) so maybe in a few years their telecommunications industry will shove ours out.

I accidentally heard a news broadcast about that yesterday afternoon. Guess who was there in the name of balance? Some fool claiming that 'Nukular' power is dangerous and unsustainable and 'only electricity and not heat', and that the UK could be entirely dependant on nothing but renewable wind, tidal and hydro.

Never mind that nuclear fission is less dangerous than living under 30 feet of water and 'unsustainable' in the way that power for 60,000 years is unsustainable, and that it won't come from Saudi Arabia, and 'electricity is not heat' is wrong on too many levels for me to bother listing.

Never mind that relying entirely on wind/tidal and hydro would require destroying all natural habitat in the UK in favour of a huge concrete accumulator and we therefore needs to import all foods because there's no room for fields and an ecosystem.


I get the desire for 'green'; ostensibly I'm an environmentalist myself and have done a reasonable amount of conservation work and been out saving the whales and suchlike, but it has to actually work. You can't just scream OMG NUKULAR NO and expect to do any good.


I'd also just like to point out that a major export France has is electricity. It has so much power that it's basically independent from Saudi oil and can afford to sell electricity to the rest of Europe. As I understand they have some problems with creationism and religion, but mostly those people have a system that is working.



As far as the Government goes, I have heard conspiracy theories suggesting that the Government itself is getting a backdoor in Phorm to spy on people. It sounds ridiculous until you listen to anything the Government has said in the past ten years, or listened to Jacqui Smith, or heard about the DNA database, or heard about the planned ID + Database, or listened to the Government talk about how the system is now too expensive to dismantle and so no-one should try.

Regardless, we now have a Government and Police force who are refusing to prosecute or investigate several thousand illegal acts. I'm really hoping the EU manages to do more than bark.

What stands head and shoulders above all about this government is their lies.  They have been caught out with a string of them, and never an apology to try and hide those lies behind an error in the statements that made them.
The latest lie was the announcement that

"All lower income and all pensioner households will be eligible for free loft and cavity wall insulation and other energy saving measures that could save them up to £300 a year in their energy bills."

It actually turns out that it will only apply to those over 70 years of age. 

The shadow business secretary said

People might wonder whether the prime minister made a big mistake or whether he was deliberately trying to mislead people

I could have accepted that it was a mistake until

Environment Secretary Hilary Benn said the offer "was very, very clear".

So in other words, it was deliberate lies.

Last edited by Bengie (25-09-2008 19:56:09)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/29 … _trial_go/

The next BT Phorm Trial starts tomorrow, apparently.

It reads like this to me: Users selected for the trial will get a pop-up asking them if they want to join the Phorm Webwise trial every time they try to connect to anything from a browser on port 80 until they accept a Phorm Webwise cookie, either giving them a userID or an 'opt out' ID.

This implies that they are indeed going to be packet sniffing your connection anyway to check your cookies, whether you're opted in or out or have their webwise filth blocked, because that's how they determine if you're opted in or out.

I don't see how this is going to gather explicit permission for the interception of data posted by those not in the trial (users of other ISPs posting emails, forums posts, IM etc) either, so I guess it's still illegal, not that that seems to matter anymore.


The switch strips the Phorm Webwise cookie from the connection if it comes on port 80, mind, so just checking for Phorm Cookies won't get you anywhere unless you try it on another port (like using SSL to check what cookies the client sends when requesting stuff from your domain, I suppose). Although I suppose that relies on Phorm being honest about what their switches are doing and when they're doing it, because neither the customer nor anyone other than Phorm/BT have any way of telling.


Is it okay if I say NO EXPLICIT CONSENT IS GIVEN FOR INTERCEPTION OF THIS MESSAGE?

It's good to talk... just not about Phorm.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/19 … rm_censor/

BT has started deleting all Phorm and BT Webwise discussion on their user forums.

The old 'customer choice' page now 404's http://www2.bt.com/static/i/btretail/we … mer-choice cache


Censoring info so the class-action lawsuits have less open info to research? Stupid enough to think that people will forget this terrible idea ever happened? Or just dumping Phorm entirely?


Annoyingly, Phorm still haven't quite gone bankrupt yet.

Blindly optimistic. Why would should a despised service be rolled out when the chances of BT and VM actually getting any money off it due to impending bankruptcy are minimal?  Better companies with real business models are going down the tubes during the current recession so how could this bunch of cowboys last much longer.

If BT and VM want services to make money then this isn't it and they should try something more reputable like legal online music or movie distribution.

Censorship can sometimes be a good thing on forums as since this one installed the anti hamster posting filter you haven't been plagued by Betrondes evil.  Still after he butted several 'gangsta' types unconscious and stole their SUV keys I haven't seen the little git.  Mind you there have been those off licence ram raids of late....

Silkie

TazUk wrote:

You have to wonder how they can loose so much money in six months

The most expensive 'How the internet works: for Investors' course in the world.

In a move that will cause literally several people to lose sleep, Phorm shares have dropped more than 40% after BT said "Nah!".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8135850.stm
(or http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/8135850.stm)

It's not all good news though, as BT spokesdroid Mike Jarvis said:

"[Our decision has] nothing to do with cost or privacy, it's about resources and priority," he added.

Has anyone actually implemented phorm? if they haven't then I'm sure the money their investors put up will run out.

TalkTalk have now dropped Phorm, more rats leaving the sinking ship

Phorm, the advertising technology group, has put its plans for the UK on hold as it explores new markets, particularly in Asia.

In other words no one in the UK wanted to use their product so they are forced to look elsewhere